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双语学习|专访亚投行行长金立群(中)

e新商务 <更多内容 2018-05-15 19:00:00

《彭博市场》:亚投行从何处融入到中国金融市场的更大变革里去?

金立群:我乐见中国市场正在进一步对外开放,而且我认为中国将继续变得更加开放,因为我们拥有了更多的金融人才和专业技能。我们国家的领导层希望开放中国金融市场,但希望在不造成混乱的情况下开放。我们已从美国和欧洲国家在2008年金融危机期间的经历中吸取了教训。

BM: Where does the AIIB fit in the larger financial evolution of Chinese financial markets? 

JL: I welcome China’s market being more open to the outside, and I think China will continue to be more open because we have more financial talent and know-how. Our country’s leadership wants to open up the Chinese financial markets, but to do so without creating chaos. We have learned from the experience of the U.S. and European countries during the 2008 financial crisis.

《彭博市场》:当西方和中国的决策者交换意见和立场时,是否有什么重要信息在翻译过程中丢失了?

金立群:对中国来说,我认为英语写作和沟通技巧非常重要。我想我永远都不会放松在加强沟通方面的努力。中国着实缺乏能与外部有效沟通的高层人士。我认为真正理解其他文化是非常重要的。这就是为什么我非常努力地与西方人士交流。我不想打口水仗。我想要的是理性讨论。

BM: When Western and Chinese policymakers exchange ideas and positions, is there something important that gets lost in translation? 

JL: For China, I think English writing and communication skills are really important. I think that I will never relax on my efforts to improve communication. We are really lacking in senior-level people in China who can communicate effectively with the outside. I think it’s important to have a real understanding of other cultures. That’s why I try very hard to communicate with the people in Western countries. I don’t want to have a war of words. I want a reasonable discussion.

金立群参加2017年“一带一路”国际合作高峰论坛“促进资金融通”平行会议圆桌讨论。

《彭博市场》:谈谈您的家庭背景情况?

金立群:我的家族在二战前日子过得比较好。我曾祖父是一名在地方私塾教书的学者。由于双亲早逝,我祖父很年轻就离开了家乡,试图在上海和周边城市自力谋生。

他是一名自学成才的工程师,收入非常高。但他不太看重钱,他的梦想是重振家族昔日荣耀,把后代培养成文人学者。他有能力为我父亲提供良好的教育,甚至是为他聘请一名英语家教。

中日战争爆发后,几乎一切都荡然无存,他们的财务状况迅速恶化,日子不再一样了。但热爱学习的传统留了下来。我父母爱好阅读,我们也有样学样。

孩提时代,我在阁楼偶然发现一些英文书籍。我依稀记得,那些是硬皮书,其中一本是《伊索寓言》(Aesop’s Fables)。还有一些期刊,例如上世纪40年代出版的《读者文摘》(Reader’s Digest)。

我对英语语言和文学的兴趣由此萌芽,在小学五年级接触到英语课时,我愈发喜欢英语。很难相信上世纪50年代的小学开设了英语课,但这是千真万确的。

BM: Could you tell us something about your family? 

JL: I was born into a family that had seen better days before World War II. My great-grandfather on my paternal side was a scholar who gave lectures in a local traditional school. As his parents died early, my grandfather left home as a young man, trying to make a living on his own in Shanghai and in neighboring cities.

He was a self-made engineer enjoying a very high income. But he did not think much of money, and his dream was that the family should return to its old glory days, with his offspring brought up as men of letters. He could afford to provide my father with a good education, even hiring for him a private English tutor.

Things all changed when the Sino-Japanese War destroyed virtually everything and their financial situation deteriorated quickly. But the traditional love for learning carried on. My parents’ hobby was reading, and we followed suit.

While still a kid, I happened to find some English books in the attic. From my vague memory I recall them being hard-covered books, and one was Aesop’s Fables. There were also some periodicals, such as Reader’s Digest, published in the 1940s.

My interest in the English language and literature was aroused and was quickly reinforced when I was introduced to the English-language course as a fifth-grader in elementary school. It was hard to believe that elementary school offered an English-language course in the 1950s, but that did happen.

《彭博市场》:难怪你最初的职业抱负是成为英语教授,对吗?

金立群:作为一名六十年代初的高中生,我开始苦读经典英文作品。寒暑假是我能专心阅读、无需顾虑学校其他科目的黄金时间。

我读的都是经典作品(主要是小说和诗歌),因为我无法获得英语世界里当代作家的作品。现在的年轻学生应该都不熟悉那些作者。诸如查尔斯·兰姆(Charles Lamb)、玛丽·兰姆(Mary Lamb)、威廉·哈兹利特(William Hazlitt)、约瑟夫·艾迪生(Joseph Addison)和理查德·斯蒂尔(Richard Steele)等伟大散文家的散文,都令我着迷。我现在仍会翻阅莎士比亚、约翰·弥尔顿(John Milton)和乔叟(Chaucer)的作品。

至于太平洋彼岸的作家中,我喜欢华盛顿·欧文(Washington Irving)、拉尔夫·沃尔多·埃默森(Ralph Waldo Emerson)和纳撒尼尔·霍桑(Nathaniel Hawthorne)。我钻进了这些作者的作品,全都是原版作品。

我勤读不辍,即便是在文革期间或是在农场工作的时候。然而,我60和70年代在中国农村学到的并非英美文学。农村生活不再是虚构的小说——而是活生生的现实。那些年的经历在很大程度上塑造了我的精神世界,并且培养了我对待开发使命的理智和情感。

BM: And, not surprisingly, your initial career ambition was to become an English professor.

JL: As a high school student in the early 1960s, I started to work very hard on the English classics. Summer and winter vacations were the best seasons for me to concentrate on my books without having to bother about some other subjects at school.

I struggled with classics—mostly fiction and poetry—as I had no access to works of contemporary writers in the English- speaking world. I read authors who would sound unfamiliar to the young students today. I was fascinated with the prose of great essayists, such as Charles Lamb and Mary Lamb, William Hazlitt, Joseph Addison, and Richard Steele. I still flip through the pages of the works of Shakespeare, John Milton, and Chaucer.

As for authors across the Pacific Ocean, I loved Washington Irving, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and Nathaniel Hawthorne. I worked on these authors, all in the original.

My efforts never discontinued—even during the Cultural Revolution or while working on the farm. What I learned in rural China in the ’60s and ’70s, however, is not English and American literature. Rural life is not fiction—it is reality. The experience of those years has shaped, to a great extent, my mental world and nourished my sense and sensibility to the mission of development.

《彭博市场》:怎么说?

金立群:与村民的日常接触,帮助我明白了他们的梦想以及他们对自己、儿女和孙辈的期望。他们的生活模式一代又一代地重复下去,不太有什么变化。他们如有一个孩子上了大学、获得一项收入和社会保障较高的城市工作,就是重大突破。就是俗称的山窝窝里飞出了金凤凰。

我们那个村到七十年代初才通电。一栋两层小楼,有电、有自来水、有抽水马桶、有部电话、存足了谷物和其他食物,就是他们一直梦寐以求的东西。在60、70年代——我在那个村的时候,他们的梦想就算不是异想天开,也仍然被认为是遥不可及的。

BM: How so? 

JL: My daily contact with the villagers helped me understand their dreams and aspirations for themselves and their children and their children’s children. The pattern of their life cycles has repeated itself generation after generation without much variance. A big breakthrough would be if one of their kids would go to college and get an urban job with a higher income and social security. As the saying goes, a golden phoenix has flown out of the poor village.

Our village was connected to the electric power grid only in the early 1970s. A two-storied farmhouse with electricity and running water, a flushing toilet, a telephone, and storage of sufficient grains and other foodstuff was what they had been dreaming about. Their dream was still considered something very remote, if not a wild fantasy, during the ’60s and ’70s when I was over there.

《彭博市场》:文革和你在中国农村的日子对你产生了什么样的影响?

金立群:这般的艰辛让我不再向往田园生活。不过这种生活也有一点好处,那便是我能有一些闲暇时间在我的茅屋里不受干扰地阅读,特别是在农闲季节。

村民们可能完全不理解我的追求。但他们人都很好,从来没有打扰过我。也许他们猜想我是不是脑子不太清楚。

我配备了一台破旧的雷明顿打字机和一本韦氏第三版新国际英语大辞典(未删节全本)——这两者都是二手的,以及一些英文书籍。这些书我得来很便宜,在轰轰烈烈的文革运动中奇迹般地保存了下来。

几十年后,有些人认为当初这个疯狂的年轻人,用戴维·赫伯特·劳伦斯(D.H. Lawrence)的话来说是,“有一种奇怪的预感,感觉将有什么事要发生。”我断然否认。我那时候并没有什么先见、远见。我所拥有的仅仅是热情——学习和努力工作的热情。

BM: How did the Cultural Revolution and your time in rural China shape you?

JL: All this toughness belied the rural attractiveness for me. The redeeming feature of this life is that I could have some spare time reading without disturbance in my thatched cottage, especially in slack seasons.

The villagers could make neither head nor tail of my pursuance. But they were such nice people and never bothered me. Perhaps they wondered whether I had my head screwed on the right way.

I was outfitted with a worn-out Remington typewriter and a copy of Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged—both purchased ­secondhand—plus a number of English books. These books had come into my possession at a small cost, having miraculously survived the bonfires of the Cultural Revolution.

Decades later, some people thought that this crazy young guy, as D.H. Lawrence would say, “had a strange prescience, an intimation of something yet to come.” That I flatly deny. I had no foresight, no vision. What I had is nothing but passion—passion for learning, for hard work.

《彭博市场》:那么您这位英语文学爱好者最后怎么进了银行业呢?

金立群:1978年,我通过全国研究生入学考试,被北京外国语学院、即现在的北京外国语大学录取为研究生,得以师从母校最著名的教授之一、继续全职进行我的英美文学研习。

在读研究生的时候,我已经是新杂志《外国文学》编辑团队的一员了。为了毕业能留校当教授,我在中国一流的学术期刊上发表了研究威廉·福克纳(William Faulkner)小说的论文。

在曾孜孜以求的学术生涯才刚刚开始的时候,我被推进了财政部。

1980年,我不知道世行行长纳马拉([Robert] McNamara)在北京与邓小平会了面。中国政府接手了台湾在国际货币基金组织(IMF)和世行的代表权,势必要派驻高级政府官员到世行执行董事会办公室,财政部是负责此事的主力机构。为此迫切需要年轻员工。

我的导师许国璋教授对我说:“我可以肯定,中国有200位左右的英语文学教授就够了,但是经济和金融领域的专家眼下就会严重短缺,尤其是那些在国内、懂英语的专家。你有充分的理由转行经济。”见我不知所措,他向我保证,如果在转行之后发现自己难以适应,随时欢迎我回去。

BM: So how did a lover of English literature end up in banking?

JL: In 1978, I was enrolled as a postgraduate student on a national competitive basis and thus could go on to pursue full time my English and American literature studies under the supervision of one of the most renowned professors at the Beijing Institute of Foreign Languages, now Beijing Foreign Studies University.

As a graduate student, I was already a staffer on the editorial team of a new magazine, Foreign Literature. My papers on William Faulkner’s fiction were published in the first-class academic journal in China, and they were to secure my job in my alma mater’s faculty right upon graduation.

An academic life that I had so coveted was just beginning to unfold when I was urged to join the Ministry of Finance.

I was not aware that President [Robert] McNamara of the World Bank met Deng Xiaoping in Beijing in 1980. The PRC [People’s Republic of China] government took over Taiwan’s representation at the IMF and the World Bank, and it was imperative to have some senior government officials posted to the executive director’s office in the World Bank, for which the Ministry of Finance was the lead agency. Young staff were desperately needed for that purpose.

My academic supervisor, Professor Xu Guozhang, said to me, “I’m sure that about 200 professors of English literature would suffice for China. But there is an imminent and acute shortage of professionals in the economics and finance field, particularly those who are at home with English. You can shift to economics for a good reason.” Seeing I was bewildered, he assured me that should I find it difficult to be in my element after such a shift, I would always be welcome back.

《彭博市场》:在财政部里的晋升也让你得以去了美国,对么?

金立群:在部里的鼓励下,我申请了由美国新闻署(U.S. Information Agency)资助的Hubert Humphrey奖学金项目,并于1987-88年被选中并派到波士顿大学经济系担任Humphrey研究员。这个项目一结束,我就回到世行担任副执行董事,任期四年。

从2003年到2008年,我担任亚行负责业务的副行长,深入探究发达国家和发展中国家均面临的一系列发展问题。

担任中国主权财富基金中投公司监事长的五年(2008年到2013年)经历,让我有机会去管理一家公司——尽管它是一家准国有企业。担任中金公司董事长(从2013年5月至2014年10月)的经历,则为我提供了另一个视角,让我能够应对私营公司所面临的管理挑战。

BM: Your rise up through the Chinese bureaucracy also took you to the U.S., right?

JL: I was encouraged by the ministry to apply to the Hubert Humphrey Fellowship Program sponsored by the U.S. Information Agency, and I was selected and assigned to the economics department of Boston University as a Humphrey fellow in 1987-88. Immediately upon completion of the program, I went back to the World Bank as the alternate executive director to serve a four-year term.

And from 2003 through 2008, I served as vice president for operations in the Asian Development Bank and delved into a host of development issues confronting both the developed and developing countries.

My five years of service [from 2008 to 2013] as chairman of the board at China Investment Corp., China’s sovereign wealth fund, gave me the opportunity to manage a company, albeit a quasi-SOE [state-owned enterprise]. And serving as chairman of China International Capital Corp. Ltd. [from May 2013 to October 2014] provided me with a different perspective, as I could deal with the managerial challenges faced by a private company.

《彭博市场》:话题回到你目前的工作,你能说说亚投行的贷款组合和项目吗?

金立群:首先,根据协议,我们覆盖基础设施和私营部门项目。所以现在,我们的贷款组合主要集中在电力、能源和运输方面。

印度是现阶段的最大借款人。这个国家有很强大的能力和需求。在印度、巴基斯坦和孟加拉国,电力严重短缺。在缅甸——我们参与了当地燃气发电厂的发展——三分之二的人口没有接上电。

所以这是一个重点领域,运输也是。我想强调我们支持比如孟买或班加罗尔地铁这样的公共交通系统的工作。这非常重要。你不会想鼓励人人开车去拥挤的市中心工作。你会鼓励他们搭乘公共交通工具。这是应对气候变化的另一个方法。

BM: Getting back to your current job, what can you tell us about the AIIB’s loan portfolio and projects?

JL: First of all, by agreement we cover infrastructure and private-sector projects. So right now, much of our loan portfolio is focused on power, energy, and transportation.

India is the biggest borrower at this stage. This is a country with strong capabilities and big needs. In India, Pakistan, ­Bangladesh, there is an acute shortage of power. In Myanmar, where we are involved in the development of gas-firing power plants, two-thirds of the people have no access to electricity.

So this is an area of focus, as is transportation. I would highlight our work supporting, say, a mass transit system like a Mumbai or Bangalore subway. It’s so important. You don’t want to encourage everyone to drive to work in congested urban centers. You encourage them to take mass transit. This is another approach to dealing with climate change.

《彭博市场》:你有没有把目光投向亚洲以外?

金立群:我们已经完成了首个非亚洲国家的项目,该项目位于埃及(亚投行为当地一个可再生能源项目提供至多2.1亿美元,该项目涉及11座太阳能发电站)。阿曼有个改变过度依赖化石燃料现状的想法。他们想要开发一个港口和各种替代能源。我们帮助了阿曼开发宽带,以便他们能够更好地使用现代电信服务。我认为协助海湾地区的中等收入国家为低碳型全球经济做好准备是很重要的。

未来——如果我们在今后几十年里取得成功——天然气可能会成为化肥的原材料,而石油可能成为化工产品的原料而不是用来烧。这种转变可能是非常突然的。

我在达沃斯与沙特阿拉伯的新财政大臣会过面,他非常有兴趣与我们合作。我认为在海湾国家,铁路开发很重要。它可以降低运输成本。

BM: Have you set your sights beyond Asia?

JL: We’ve done our first project in a non-Asian country: Egypt [where the AIIB is providing up to $210 million for a renewable-energy project involving 11 greenfield solar power plants]. Oman has an idea to move away from excessive dependence on fossil fuels. They want to develop a port and alternative sources of energy. We helped Oman to develop broadband so they would have better access to modern telecommunication service. I think it’s so important to help middle-income countries in the Gulf area to be prepared for a low-carbon global economy.

In the future, probably—if we are successful over the next few decades—gas might be the raw material for chemical fertilizer, and the oil could be the material for chemical products rather than being burned. The transition might be very abrupt.

I met the new finance minister of Saudi Arabia in Davos, and he is very much interested in working with us. I think in Gulf countries, railway development is important. It can reduce the cost of transportation.

未完待续。To be continued.

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专访亚投行行长金立群(上)

编辑:高雅

审校:张鹏

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