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双语学习|专访亚投行行长金立群(上)

e新商务 <更多内容 2018-05-14 16:59:17

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近日,亚洲基础设施投资银行首任行长兼董事长金立群接受彭博(Bloomberg)独家采访,讲述亚投行目标愿景、运营及作用等,以及自身从英语文学爱好者到银行业从业者的转变。

经彭博中国独家授权,“e新商务”将分3期摘发上述中英双语采访记录,供大家学习参考。

《彭博市场》杂志

封面文章:专访亚投行行长金立群

金立群还不是一个家喻户晓的名字,不过他肩负的可是全球金融界最难、最重要的工作之一。

Jin Liqun may not be a household name (yet), even though he has one of the most challenging and important jobs in global finance.

现年68岁的金立群是亚洲基础设施投资银行(简称:亚投行)的首任行长兼董事长。2016年1月开业的亚投行是一家总部位于北京的多边开发银行,体现了中国想在国际金融体系中发挥重要作用的雄心壮志。

Jin, 68, is the inaugural president and chairman of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. The AIIB, a Beijing-based multilateral development bank that opened for business in January 2016, is an embodiment of China’s aspirations to play a major role in the international financial system.

和许多人一样,青年时期的金立群在文革期间也曾被下放中国农村。他当年以英语文学专业背景加入了中国财政部,在持久且出色的工作中曾官至副部长。他还曾就职于世行和亚行。

Like many during Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution, Jin spent part of his youth in rural China. A devoted student of English literature, he had a long and distinguished run in the Chinese Ministry of Finance, reaching the rank of vice minister. He’s also done stints at the World Bank and the ADB. 

位于北京的亚投行总部大楼

以下是《彭博市场》(Bloomberg Markets)杂志对金立群的专访:

《彭博市场》:当你穿梭全球金融会议与各方对话时,对亚投行的什么误解让你抓狂?

金立群:有人问“我们要亚投行干什么?”有时候问题甚至会更直接:“中国想要干什么?过去七十年,这个地区一直受到世行和亚行很好的服务。中国为什么想要成立一个新机构?这不是资源浪费么?把钱投到现有机构里不是更具成本效益么?中国有没有私心?中国是不是期望亚投行将帮助它实现地缘政治目标?”

我必须应付所有这些问题。对我而言难就难在,我本来就是一名中国人。我认为我不可能告诉全世界我真的很中立。我没法这么说。

另一方面,如果我只是代表中国的想法,而未善尽本分,察纳理应参与这项工作的所有人的想法、意见、关切和看法,那我不认为能够行得通。

BLOOMBERG MARKETS: When you’re making the rounds at global finance meetings, what misconceptions about the AIIB drive you crazy?

JIN LIQUN: “Why do we need the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank?” Sometimes the question can even be more blunt: “What is China up to? The World Bank and Asian Development Bank have been serving this region well over the last seven decades. Why would China set up a new institution? Isn’t this a waste of resources? Wouldn’t it be more cost-effective to put money into existing institutions? Does China have an ax to grind? Is China hoping the AIIB will help it achieve geopolitical objectives?”

I’ve had to deal with all of those questions. And the difficult part is that I’m a Chinese in the first instance. I don’t think it’s possible for me to tell the whole world I’m really neutral. I cannot say that.

On the other hand, if I just represent China’s ideas, without doing my part to incorporate the ideas, comments, concerns, observations of all the people who are supposed to be part of this work, I don’t think it will be successful. 

《彭博市场》:那么,谈一谈亚投行的首要原则和愿景吧。

金立群:1978年改革开放开始时,中国完全没有可以被称为现代化基础设施的东西。没有高速公路、没有电气化铁路、没有现代海港和机场、没有超临界发电厂、没有高压输电线路或高效配电系统。可以说是一无所有。

在这种情况下,中国的现代化不过是痴心妄想。之后,中国开始用从世行——后来还有亚行——筹来的财务资源以及国内储蓄,大举投资基础设施。从上世纪九十年代中期开始,中国发生了翻天覆地的变化。

有意思的是,在中国当初启动一个借贷计划时,一些人认为把外国资金铺到泥土上是疯狂之举。一条马路能让你的钱收回来吗?从没听说过!多年之后,人们开始明白借钱消费与借钱投资的天壤之别。

现在,通过建立在基础设施投资上的全面经济和社会发展,中国可以与日本和韩国一道提供切实的增长经验。

在2013年,中国国家主席习近平宣布中国政府决定设立一家多边开发银行,以促进基础设施投资。动机很简单:基础设施投资瓶颈严重阻碍了许多发展中国家促进增长的努力。

受中国经验启发、成立一种新型多边开发银行的想法很快就开始得到积极响应,首先是东盟国家,然后是南亚国家,接着是中东国家。

BM: So tell us about the bank’s first principles and vision.

JL: When China launched its opening-up and reform programs in 1978, there was absolutely nothing which could be described as modern infrastructure facilities in this country. No expressway, no electrified railway, no modern seaports or airports, no supercritical power plants, no high-voltage transmission lines or efficient distribution systems. No nothing.

Under such circumstances, the modernization of China was nothing but a wild fantasy. Then China started to invest massively in infrastructure with financial resources raised from the World Bank—and later on, the ADB—as well as from its domestic savings. Dramatic changes were beginning to take place from the mid-1990s.

It’s interesting to note that when China embarked on a borrowing program, some people thought it was crazy to put foreign money on top of dirt. Can a road give you your money back? Never heard of it! Years later, people came to understand the huge difference between borrowing to consume and borrowing to invest.

China can now stand alongside Japan and Korea to offer tangible experience in growth through broad-based economic and social development based on infrastructure investment.

In 2013, President Xi Jinping announced the Chinese government’s decision to create an MDB [multilateral development bank] to promote infrastructure investment. The purpose of this initiative was straightforward: Bottlenecks in infrastructure investment have seriously hamstrung many developing countries in their growth efforts.

The idea of making a new type of MDB inspired by China’s experience quickly began receiving positive responses—first from ASEAN countries [Association of Southeast Asian Nations] and then from South Asian countries, followed by Central and Middle Eastern countries.  

《彭博市场》:亚投行与世行或亚行的区别在哪里?

金立群: 成立一家新机构,最有力的论点可能就是它具有新特点。它无意克隆或复制现有机构。开发银行的概念不是抽象艺术——像Jasper Johns的画作那样——越让人难以捉摸就越迷人。世界上应该有点与现有机构不同的东西了,但要有一些新特点,这些特点是以现有机构的学习和经验为基础的。

BM: What sets the AIIB apart from the World Bank or Asian Development Bank?

JL: The strongest possible argument for setting up a new institution is its new features. It’s not intended to be a clone or a copy of existing institutions. The concept of a development bank is not abstract expressionist art, such as Jasper Johns’s paintings—the less comprehensible, the more charming. The world should have something different compared to the existing institutions, but with special features grounded in the learning and experience of those institutions. 

《彭博市场》:那都有哪些特点呢?

金立群:亚投行将抵制官僚主义的束缚。我们不会设立花俏、华丽但大多是冗余的头衔和职位。而且我们将努力不让员工各自为政或陷入部门之争上。

我们制定了相关运营政策和流程,以加强效率、提高成本效益,并且在应对客户需求上取得可以度量的成绩。我们将继续招募专业人才,水平越高越好。得有充分理由才能设职派官。

BM: And what are those special features?

JL: The AIIB will resist being tied down by bureaucracy. We will not create fancy, flamboyant, and mostly redundant titles and positions. And we will fight against staff working in silos or bogged down in interdepartmental squabbling.

We have put in place operating policies and procedures to enhance efficiency, to promote cost-effectiveness, and to achieve measurable results that respond to our clients’ needs. We will continue to recruit professionals of the highest possible caliber. No position will be created without full justification.  

《彭博市场》:你如何让亚投行预防腐败呢?

金立群:我希望亚投行能干干净净。亚投行绝不容忍腐败。我们会照顾好两个重要方面,一个是亚投行项目全球招标形式的采购,一个是亚投行内部的企业采购。

对于前者,我们将与客户密切合作、监督竞标流程,并确保所有投标公司都得到公平公正的对待。任何违规、涉及贿赂行为的公司或个人都将被列入黑名单。我们会主动排除那些已被其他多边开发银行禁止的组织。

对于后者,任何企业采购都将通过采购委员会并受到严格审查,以防违规或滥用亚投行的资金。

我已授权首席内部审计师查核亚投行的支出,以确保没有任何异常之处。不容任何抵制或阻碍。小问题一有苗头就要掐灭,以免铸成大错。我们必须警惕任何漠视成本效益或故意滥用财务资源的行为。管子有云:微邪不可不禁也;微邪者,大邪之所生也。

BM: How do you make the AIIB corruption-proof?

JL: I want the AIIB to be squeaky clean. There will be zero tolerance for corruption. We take care of two important aspects, namely procurement through international competitive bidding on our projects and our own internal corporate procurement.

For the former, we will work in close collaboration with our clients to monitor the process of bidding and to make sure that all the companies tendering their bids will be treated fairly and equitably. Any companies or individuals who violate the rules and engage in bribery will be blacklisted. We are voluntarily debarring those organizations already debarred by the other MDBs.

For the latter, any corporate procurement will go through the procurement committee and be subject to close scrutiny to prevent irregularities or misappropriation of the AIIB’s funds.

I have empowered the chief internal auditor to check the expenditures of the bank to make sure that nothing irregular happens. No resistance or obstruction will be tolerated. Minor problems must be nipped in the bud so that they will not fester. We must guard against any callous disregard for cost-effectiveness or intentional misuse of financial resources. A Chinese sage said thousands of years ago, “Felonies thrive where misdemeanors are tolerated.”

《彭博市场》:不带政治偏见、作出最佳贷款决策,一直都是多边开发银行面临的一项挑战。亚投行如何避免落入陷阱? 

金立群:能够经年累月的成功靠的是一套决策过程,它必须民主、理性,不因外部因素而冲动、情绪化。如果异见遭到排斥或者打压、不允许坦诚地交流想法,或者无视工作人员的建议,那就不可能有这样的决策过程。

亚投行作出及下达任何决策,都需要经过执行委员会开会后详尽探讨、达成共识。员工可以畅所欲言、对主管提出质疑。从基层到最高层,这套做法一体适用。

我非常重视民主决策。我研究了一些很有意思的商业帝国的兴衰。每个帝国都是由一位高瞻远瞩的人建立起来的,无一例外。但是个人的智慧是有限的,就算是拓荒先驱和开路先锋可能也无法做到始终面面俱到。

当帝国的建造者不肯察纳雅言,大祸就会临头。只有在帝国最终垮在自己手里时,帝国建造者们才会幡然醒悟。

大家都说,人们从来都不会吸取历史教训。但我是一个喜欢读史并吸取历史教训的人。

BM: Making the best possible loan decisions, free of political bias, is always a challenge at multilateral development banks. How does the AIIB avoid that trap?

JL: Sustained success comes from a decision-making process which must be democratic, rational, and free of impulsive and emotional reactions to external factors. Such a process is not possible if challenging views are frowned upon or hushed, candid and frank exchanges of ideas not allowed, or suggestions from the staff ignored.

At the AIIB, no decisions will ever be made and then handed down without thorough deliberation and ­consensus-reaching at the executive committee meeting. Staff can speak up and challenge their supervisors. This practice applies all the way to the top.

I place great importance on democratic decision-making. I have followed a number of interesting cases of the rise and fall of great business empires. Without exception, an empire was built up by an individual with extraordinary vision. But an individual’s wisdom is limited, and even pioneers and trailblazers may not be able to keep abreast of everything at all times.

Disasters loom large when the empire builder refuses to listen. Empire builders only see this when, at the denouement, the empire collapses in their hands.

They say people never learn from history. I am one who loves to read history and will learn from history. 

《彭博市场》:中国的发展道路对你有关亚投行运营和目标的思路产生了什么样的影响?

金立群:我想说,基于中国过去几十年的发展经历,再加上我的个人经历,我们认为很有必要出现一家新的、专注于基础设施开发的跨国开发银行。

首先,中国自己就受益于世行和来自许多政府的双边支持。我们开始了解多边主义的重要性。

其次,正如我所说的,基础设施是经济快速增长的关键。最后,我们想成立一家拥有现代的技术技能、管理技能和出色治理的银行。

每一个人都很重要,但是他们只有在齐心协力的时候才能发挥作用。

BM: How has China’s development path shaped your thinking about the AIIB’s operations and goals?

JL: I would say that, based on the development experience of China over the last few decades, plus my personal experience, we believed it was important to have a new multinational development bank focused on infrastructure development.

First of all, China itself has benefited from the World Bank and bilateral support from many governments. We came to understand the importance of multilateralism.

Secondly, as I said, infrastructure is key to fast economic growth. Finally, we wanted to create a bank with modern technology expertise, managerial expertise, and very good governance.

Each and every one is important, but they only work when they work together in unison. 

《彭博市场》:您一直在非常小心地把亚投行和中国庞大的国际基础设施项目——“一带一路”倡议——隔出一点距离来。为什么? 

金立群:中国政府提出的“一带一路”是某种平台,邀请所有参与国家来合作。习主席针对该计划提出了共商共建共享的原则。

我们谈的是60到70个国家。该计划的大目标是改善亚洲的区域连通性,甚至最终改善全球连通性,从而惠及已经掉队的人们。

这不仅仅是为了中国。这里存在一个重大误解,不要以为该计划是为了造福中国公司和劳动力。其中一些项目实际上可能根本没有中方参与。中国想的是促进国际合作。

BM: You’ve been very careful to create some space between the AIIB and China’s huge international infrastructure program, the “One Belt, One Road” initiative. Why?

JL: “One Belt, One Road,” proposed by the Chinese government, is a kind of platform, inviting all the participating countries to work together. President Xi has proposed the program guided by the principles of broad consultation, joint construction, and shared benefit.

We are talking about 60 to 70 countries. The broad goal is to improve regional connectivity in Asia, eventually even global connectivity, thereby benefiting the people who have been left behind.

This isn’t just about China. There’s a serious misconception that the program is about benefiting Chinese companies and labor. Some of these projects may actually not have Chinese participation at all. China’s idea is to promote international cooperation.

《彭博市场》:亚投行如何融入这一切?

金立群:“一带一路”和亚投行无疑都是中国政府的提议。但是两者有各自的功能和作用。一个是中国牵头的、意在让所有国家合作的广泛计划。另一个则是这个按自身标准或做法来运营的多边开发机构。

如果参与“一带一路”倡议的国家愿意(在亚投行)与我们合作,我们将乐意考虑。但我们需要看看这些项目的财务可持续性。我们需要考虑环境保护和当地民众的感受。我们有自己的处理标准。

考虑到我们的能力以及必须响应各国的需求,我相信我们将积极推动这些计划。但我们做不到包揽一切。

BM: And how does the AIIB fit into all of this?

JL: “One Belt, One Road” and the AIIB are certainly initiatives proposed by the Chinese government. But they have their respective functions and roles. One is a broad China-led initiative for all the countries to work together. The other is this multilateral development institution that operates by its own standard of practice.

If countries involved in the “One Belt, One Road” programs would like to work with us [at the AIIB], we will be very happy to consider them. But we need to look at the financial sustainability of the projects. We need to look at environmental protection and the sentiment of the local people.

We have our own standards to process. I believe we will be actively promoting those programs, given our capacity and being responsive to the needs of countries. But we cannot cover everything.

《彭博市场》:我们知道亚投行正在考虑今年在国际市场上发行以美元计价的债券。这对亚投行有多重要?

金立群:我们已获得三大评级机构AAA的评级。这是因为包括中国和一些欧洲国家在内的所有主要股东大力支持。

亚投行管理层的运营独立于一切政府之外。我们依照自己的标准和董事会的指导作出决策。所以内部治理、风险控制、严格的财务管理和高素质的员工是关键所在。我们的团队,从最高层到基层员工,在考虑每一笔投资的时候都要牢记着亚投行的操守。

这一切应该能向评级公司保证,这家银行值得给予最高的评级。有了这样的评级,这家银行必然就能在适当的时机进入市场。

BM: We understand the AIIB is considering launching a dollar-denominated bond offering in the international markets this year. How significant is this for the bank?

JL: We’ve been granted top-level ratings from the three major rating agencies. This is due to the strong support of all the major shareholders, including China and some European countries.

The bank’s management operates independent of any government. We make decisions guided by our own standards and our board. So internal governance, risk control, rigorous financial management, high-quality staff are key. And our team, from the very top to staff out in the field, looks at every investment with the integrity of the bank in mind.

All of this should give assurance to the rating companies that this bank deserves the highest rating. With this rating, the bank certainly can go to the market when the time is appropriate. 

未完待续。To be continued.

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